Spring Cup - Comments/Criticism/Suggestions
Author Posting
Hey players,

as the SpringCup has started, I think it would be good for players and esl administration to have an opportunity to leave their comments, criticism and suggestions for improvements in any way in a thread.
I think this could help the cup to improve and even the ongoing ladders - and maybe even future cups cups.

So leave your comments and dont flame.
quote ] 
Hi Pinky ;)

To begin with, I think YOU should be part of the admin crew, so you could help the cup running smoother, fix some problems that have happened until now (some players got forfeitloss, some bugs happened about the 1st map ... etc) and furthermore, you know the game and the community, so you know how to deal with future possible problems.

Then, i agree about forcing the 1st map until round 4/5, but then it looks pretty bad to see forced maps after that as matches begin to be "highskilled". What could happen is :
1) either there's a match between an inactive and an active player, and OH TOO BAD the first map is either Acquisition or Bonescrapper, which the second player had never played ....
2) There's a Deckonly player that meets another one, and, luckily, the first map is ... DECK ! He'll win it easily and then, if he loses the second map will have the right to choose his 3rd map.

Best way :
From round 4/5, let the players choose their own map, highest frags decides who starts eliminating between the 5 remaining maps that haven't been played. The last map remaining will be played, and tbh, it will be more fair emoticon-grin
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ok i have few?

14/05/09 19:35 #1
online status
Notorious BronsoN
can you play tonight sauki,, or maybe tomorrow at 21.00 cet
15/05/09 00:41 #2
online status
iMpures SauKi
i can play today but 10:00 or more, morning...

ok this was posted in my match against sauki, since the 15/05 15:30 or so, i have been online allmost every hour since,searching for sauki, etc on #esl.ut and on #impures which is the clan he plays in, he havent been online not once....

and ofc i dont reply to the match comment 00.41 because if you got a job where you get up 05:20 every morning you are ofc sleeping at 00:41 i thought he would come online at one point or another, during the next few days, but i was wrong...and now sauki have got a default win just because he made the last post...can this really be right?? why not give the win to the guy that actually are online, and wants to play,,instead of the person which make a late night comment and then goes offline for 2 days...i dont get it?
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You are absolutely right BronsoN... I just dont get this "leave comment, get a defwin" thing, there should be warchannels like CB have...
quote ] 
ROLY wrote:
You are absolutely right BronsoN... I just dont get this "leave comment, get a defwin" thing, there should be warchannels like CB have...

yes this is just stupid imo,, sauki is still no where to be seen...and still he get the win....makes me rofl

and admins aint doing nothing about it!!!!
quote ] 
Few suggestions:

1st. all-in-all admins doing a good job except about forfeit loss: maybe we should learn from Bronson's story? maybe 2 days to play a match is not enough, too restricted ? and putting pressure like that will only lead to more forfeits and less interest in the cup ?

2nd. I support PinkRing applying for a full-time job within the admin crew. Two main reasons for that: he has already contributted a lot, amarite? No offense but he knows the community more than half of the current crew.

3rd. I support the cup format proposed by ricot. It can't seriously stay like it is ...

4th. remove Bonescrapper or Acquisition, leave the pool to 6 maps.

I'm done.
quote ] 

Pinkyring shouldnt be a admin at all. Hes a big flamer and shouldnt be allowed to have power at all and hes doing a pretty poor job at everything. For exaomple the cupmatchup sucks and he sucks and hes weird. my point made ! peace out

Edit: remove all polish players !!

Kiddin !
quote ] 

first of all its NOT being discussed whos gonna be an Admin and whos not.

Second point is: You are totaly right that the defwins are not fair at all times. It is pretty sad, but to be a 100% fair and always know whos lying and whos telling the truth is pretty impossible.
I cant promise that it will never happen again. All I can do is tell you, that I am sorry for the cases in which it went bad and that we will try to make it better next time.

The map problem that ricot was talking about is another thing that we have noticed during the Cup and its a 100% YES that it will be like ricot said, next time.

Additionaly I have to say that it is not always as easy as it looks like. If you take a look at some match comments you will notice that the english language seems to be a science, that is too hard for some people on this planet. And again: If you wanna write a support ticket or a protest you will get NO HELP if it´s not written in english.

What´s really good to see is, that this thread works without flaming and cursing, keep this up!!

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All of the above.
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Ok this is something what i do not understand:

some players get more time to play a match, and others dont.
best example is GohLink vs rem and pulseh vs Lirving.

could admins give me an argument why both matches are judged differently? both matches are from the 3rd round, but Gohlink/rem are only allowed to play on tuesday and pulseh/lirving can play on wednesday.
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some players get more time because they told me that they will play one or two days later. If I dont have information and no matchcomment its senseless to give them more time.
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Hmmm, then how come nearly all round 4 matches, which should've been played làst Sunday, are still pending without any comments whatsoever?

Or Boltar interfering in some matches about playing which actually do have some commenting going on?

The matches should have solid deadlines, unless indeed both players agree for a later time/date stamp.
As it currently stands, it seems every match from now on will take a week rather than 2 days.
quote ] 
The matches have very clear deadlines.


Pseih vs Boltar is set to start at Monday 16:00. That time is the start of the 48 hours, that the players have time to find a appointment and play. This means, when the match starts at Monday 16:00 it´s deadline ist Wednesday 16:00. The matches which are set to start at Wednesday 16:00 have their deadline at Friday 16:00, and so on.

Now, it looks like we judge players differently but that is not true. First of all, we don´t take it so seriously with that 16:00 o´clock thing. As a matter of fact the Defwins are mostly given a few hours after the deadline, at night. That means, handing the Monday - Wednesday example, it´s a little bit more than 48 hours. Precisely 56 hours.
Thats the basis we are working on.

I continue with the Pseih vs Boltar example match that is scheduled on Monday 16:00. Let´s say we are lazy campers and until Wednesday there is NO comment written on the match. Now we post a "Today is the last chance to play this match." Or something like that AND additionaly we take a look at the last matches of both players. At that time its already 14:00 o´ clock on Wednesday and we see that both players didn´t play one single match yet OR one of them didn´t play one single match, the other one played them all in time. The Admin will post his comment on the match and wait until night (at least) to give the defwin.


The match is full of players comments and its clear that they are still trying to find an appointment that fits both of them. Again we make clear that this match has to be played very soon, via the comments. If now the players find an appointment or seem to be trying very hard, we wait up to the maximum of two days.
That´s not a rule or something, that is because the ESL is a gaming league, not a defwinning league and we want as many matches played as possible, even if that causes a delay for the next round.

So, we are not judging players differently, we are just trying to make you play the matches.

I hope I was able to explain all this a little bit better to you guys!

quote ] 
The deadlines may be clear to you, but not to most players, especially those new to ESL. People just ignored the date given in the match settings. Those were seriously bugged at the start of the cup, and since then no official announcement actually arrived at the players about these dates being the respective deadlines of this cup's matches.
So, while there seems to be a rule now, few players know about it, as it mostly shows up when an admin posts a random comment to a random match about the deadline being close.
My match of round 3 was "officially" due saturday, but actually played on monday. Today, in my following match's comments, we are - out of all sudden - informed that "today is our last chance to play". That's only two days after finishing my last match. Even if one can see it as four days after the "official" deadline of my previous match - that is not much time. To be honest, you can't seriously put up deadlines like that and argument "the ESL is not a defwinning league" at the same time. People usually have other things to do with their lives.
It's also not fair when players, who do their matches asap, get delayed by their sluggish would-be-opponents of their next round and then risk a defloss due to lack of time.

By all means, I propose the following, very basic stuff:
Make one transparent rule that applies and is fair to every player.
Then actually enforce it in EVERY match and not randomly selected ones.

That is all.
quote ] 

Now we face a very typical and famous fact of players:

Not reading the rules and news.
You mentioned, that we didn´t announce the rules with the scheduled 48 hours. That is wrong.

News from Wednesday, 13.05.09 00:01
Let me show you one important part of the news:

"Every match has a planned round time of 48 hours. That means, if the match is scheduled for Sunday 16:00, the latest appointment for that match would be Tuesday 16:00. Please keep that in mind when planning your next matches."

Additionaly this was up for reading in the information section of the cup.

One thing that you stated is very true though: Whe shouldn´t allow players some "extra time" for their matches, it causes bad delays for the following matches. Thats bad, no doubt about that.
BUT! That means even more Defwins.

So either we have a straight timetable and more Defwins OR we have a loose timetable with more matches but delayed.

Not so easy to decide.

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obviously, you're handing out free wins waaaay to fast...
quote ] 

Way too fast? emoticon-smile

First you complained, that the timetable is too loose and now its way too fast.

Look at the match, linked above. The time was up, clearly, but yet the player does not know the times that matches are planned to be played. Now I´ll let them finish it tomorrow, but by that, the next match gets delayed.

Its always the same, the players complain all the time about everything.

obviously, you can never statisfy the players.
quote ] 
Boltar wrote:

Now we face a very typical and famous fact of players:

Not reading the rules and news.
You mentioned, that we didn´t announce the rules with the scheduled 48 hours.

I said it didn't arrive at the players. You should know players by now. Not reading news is part of the problem, true, but the match overview not being intuitive - or even bugged - is as well.

Boltar wrote:

So either we have a straight timetable and more Defwins OR we have a loose timetable with more matches but delayed.

Enforcing the timetable as it is right now strictly doesn't make sense, as it is already broken. In the course of the last rounds delays have gone so far that some people get less than 24 hours to arrange and play their scheduled matches. It would be insane to punish players who stumbled into this situation for no reason at all.
Imo it would be much easier if everybody had more time in general. Move the scheduled date for any match, starting at round 5, to 5 days later. This would give everyone (players and admins alike ;) the chance to recover from this strange situation. After that you could act more strictly without having a bad conscience, too.
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QuadV coverage cancelled?
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