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Improvements to ESL config
 
Author Posting
1. Remove grenade shooting
2. Only allow the weaker engineer weapon buff

Why? 
http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28088
quote ] 
i approve! 100% remove grenade shooting!
quote ] 
just give everyone 33% extra damage and remove weapon buff from eng generaly ; )) sup!
quote ] 
grandeshooting is indeed abit gay, its like having a granadelauncher shoot in between your sprays. 

And what it comes to the 33% wepbuff, its imo bit too powerfull. The lesser buff would still provide enough to be worth going for engi and buffing your team but would not necessary be a ridiculous edge over a player who doesn't have the buff. 

"buffing is a part of the game and it's your teams fault if u don't have the buff" <- expecting this comment

also u would have to track (Aim) more when u do less dmg per bullet = bad thing?

-- 
Epic skillboots [Equiped] +20 skill
quote ] 
Try to set the spawn timer lower when coming out of spawn. People can make it so far without taking damage it's ridiculous.

Set the buff to 20% and it's fine.
quote ] 
spawn protection reduction
buff 20%
decrease of revive protection by 1 sec
balance spawntimes in favor of attackers
quote ] 
Yeh am fine with having the grenade shooting talent removed from the game, with regards to weapon buff am not to fussed either way.
quote ] 
Ezekiel wrote:
Yeh am fine with having the grenade shooting talent removed from the game, with regards to weapon buff am not to fussed either way.

+1
quote ] 
Anything making is easier, than it already is, to defend should be nerfed. This game is already going downhill because, now all tried being raped in our mainspawn( As attacker ) in a 20 min round and honestly it is getting pretty boring and trivial.

Nerf the buff which are mostly widely used when defending, and since you keep yours buffs as long as you are revived, then you have a clear advantage over the attackers.

If it would be possible to change the defenders respawntime to like 25-30 secs in stead of the default 20 sec. then I think it will open the game more.


About the maps:

Why cant a winner be decided on har far a team escorts the hostage on Aquarium. I know there is no percentage counter like the hackbox etc. But the teams could take Screenshots of the hostage position and use it for deciding a winner.

If 2 team has different SS of the hostage then ofc the SS with the hostage closest to the end will help decide. If 2 teams are trying to exploit and not take SS then the attacking team simply has to be sure to take the SS, so they can prove his last position.

If a match is more or less a draw, after looking at the SS, the admins must then decide who got the hostage the furthest.

All this should open up for the use of all maps. atm Aquarium, Reactor cant be used as decider maps unless they complete all objectives. Resort, Shipyard and ContainerCity, refuel, SecurityTower can only be used to a certain point. 

Terminal is really the only useable maps for competitive gaming until we get somekind of percentage counter for hostage repairbot etc.


VIP Gaming Ultra vote for removing the grenadeshooting and weaponbuff and MAX allow 1 mine to be deploy just like the max 1 Turret!
quote ] 
terminal is the worst map casue of spawnprotection. So it must be romoved untill a fix comes out.

And grenade shoting is just an accident waiting to happend...
So randomemoticon-tongue
Maybe the engineerbuff thing can be tested. That migth be a good idea.
quote ] 
Boserage wrote:
Anything making is easier, than it already is, to defend should be nerfed. This game is already going downhill because, now all tried being raped in our mainspawn( As attacker ) in a 20 min round and honestly it is getting pretty boring and trivial.

Nerf the buff which are mostly widely used when defending, and since you keep yours buffs as long as you are revived, then you have a clear advantage over the attackers.

If it would be possible to change the defenders respawntime to like 25-30 secs in stead of the default 20 sec. then I think it will open the game more.


About the maps:

Why cant a winner be decided on har far a team escorts the hostage on Aquarium. I know there is no percentage counter like the hackbox etc. But the teams could take Screenshots of the hostage position and use it for deciding a winner.

If 2 team has different SS of the hostage then ofc the SS with the hostage closest to the end will help decide. If 2 teams are trying to exploit and not take SS then the attacking team simply has to be sure to take the SS, so they can prove his last position.

If a match is more or less a draw, after looking at the SS, the admins must then decide who got the hostage the furthest.

All this should open up for the use of all maps. atm Aquarium, Reactor cant be used as decider maps unless they complete all objectives. Resort, Shipyard and ContainerCity, refuel, SecurityTower can only be used to a certain point. 

Terminal is really the only useable maps for competitive gaming until we get somekind of percentage counter for hostage repairbot etc.


VIP Gaming Ultra vote for removing the grenadeshooting and weaponbuff and MAX allow 1 mine to be deploy just like the max 1 Turret!


I can just take a random screen on my server so who do you want to believe then. as long as there is no percentage counter for escort missions you have to stick with the current ruleset.
don't really agree on the one mine thing though.
only option is to activate the automatic thing that gives a win if one team gets farther then the other one.
quote ] 
jaNsen wrote:
I can just take a random screen on my server so who do you want to believe then. as long as there is no percentage counter for escort missions you have to stick with the current ruleset.
.


Yes exactly. You take SS with ESLwire which should be proff enough, u got timestamps etc. Both teams simply have to provide SS and in case of complication, the admin can decide, based on the provided SS and then decide who one. Maybe it should be tested in the ESL Ladder for 1-2 weeks. I honestly think it would work unless people on purpose dont take SS or tries to cheat. Lets test it along with no weapons buff.

About the max 1 mine idea. Imaging to teams playing Terminal. The team1 is attacking first and gets 50% hack. Team2 now attacks. Team1 defending knows that they just have to defend less than 50%. So they go 2-3 engineers and place 2-3 mines in the hackroom and then camp behind the hackroom. Mines will kill the Operatives and the medics trying to revive them are outnumber by 5/3 ( in case of 2 operatives ) Meaning no chance for team2 to win becuase there is mines all over.
quote ] 
Boserage wrote:
Yes exactly. You take SS with ESLwire which should be proff enough, u got timestamps etc. Both teams simply have to provide SS and in case of complication, the admin can decide, based on the provided SS and then decide who one. Maybe it should be tested in the ESL Ladder for 1-2 weeks. I honestly think it would work unless people on purpose dont take SS or tries to cheat. Lets test it along with no weapons buff.

About the max 1 mine idea. Imaging to teams playing Terminal. The team1 is attacking first and gets 50% hack. Team2 now attacks. Team1 defending knows that they just have to defend less than 50%. So they go 2-3 engineers and place 2-3 mines in the hackroom and then camp behind the hackroom. Mines will kill the Operatives and the medics trying to revive them are outnumber by 5/3 ( in case of 2 operatives ) Meaning no chance for team2 to win becuase there is mines all over.


True mines can be annoying, but the 2 operatives can spot the mines and therefore should destroy them or avoid them rather than blindly running into the glass room.

With regards to getting the hostage further etc i agree with that, in most cases it is pretty obvious who got further, and tbh splashdamage could easily implement a percentage on how far hostage got as the hostage takes a set path and does not deviate, so could easily have a percentage marker added.
quote ] 
I know they can spot the mines, but still they would  have to make a full stop and have a Engineer to defuse them. Its almost impossible to find time to do that in such a small room with 10 players.
quote ] 
Boserage wrote:
I know they can spot the mines, but still they would  have to make a full stop and have a Engineer to defuse them. Its almost impossible to find time to do that in such a small room with 10 players.


Nades?
quote ] 
FreakyNoise wrote:
Nades?



I know people can come up with 1000 solutions to the mine issue. But when you are ingame, about to go into a room with 5 defenders, do you then start nading where you think the mines are or do you focus on the camping defenders 5 meters from you waiting for your next move..??

Please try to look and think about this from the competitive and balancing view and not just come up with theoretical solution instead of practical solutions..
quote ] 
If we know that my enemie is placing a mine for example @ the glass house every time I just throw a nade there... thats not theory crafting m8. And playing with 3 engeneers has a back side too. Your "tactic" (camping with 5 guys behind the Hack room) wouldn't work at all anyway ;D
quote ] 
Why wasn't the operative emp and hack turret allowed?
quote ] 
JonesyWelsh wrote:
Why wasn't the operative emp and hack turret allowed?


EMP is not allowed because you can slow down HE charge for almost 15sec if i remember correctly, so defence can use it as a huge advantage.

hack turret was and still is allowed emoticon-grin
quote ] 
I personally like the grenade shooting, i use it 90% of the time when i use grenades, but i understand how it's overpowered, it's probably why i rely on it.

Either removing the weapon buff or removing the improved perk would help levelthe field, it is totally noticeable at the moment if you get caught without oneand you’re in a fire fight against someone who has it. It will help get rid ofthese full buffed defences which make attacking even harder.

People are talking about the spawn timers and spawn protection and i completelyagree these are things that need to be addressed. Terminal is a broken map dueto this at the moment on both parts, but i don’t think ESL can do anythingabout this until the SDK is released or splash damage unlock/add commands tochange these on the server. the latter would be the smarter, less lengthyoption by far.

Just to add my opinion on the EMP's, they are ridiculously overpowered fromwhat iv seen, and will just add way more to the advantage of the defenders thenattackers.

I don’t feel mines are overpowered, they can easily be countered with nades, engi's and operatives. Simple calls, coordination, and awareness can avoidmines being a nuisance

instead of changing the gameplay, I feel we should be focusing on shrinking theadvantage defenders obviously have due to maps being designed so the defendershave a much shorter distance to get into position. the weapon buff is somethingthat will help this greatly i feel, but i just think grenade shooting is justtaking gameplay out.

no flame please, just my opinions emoticon-grin
quote ] 
This is what is needed with the ESL config.

Add back in all those Operative abilities that you removed. You know, nerfing the already least used class? AKA add back in com hacking and marking.

Remove level 2 buff from engineers.

Remove mines from engineers. These are a terrible addition, as you can effectively cover a route into the base without even being there. Even if they get spotted, destroying said mine effectively means your position is given away to the enemy without any of the scouting and other fun skilled stuff.

Remove the retarded full hold rules. A game should only be a draw on plant objectives, or if by some freak chance you managed to both get the exact same progress. 

Grenade shooting is fine. L2P, especially since you can also shoot enemy nades.

reallow:
Homing Beacon
Comms Hack
EMP Grenades 

Remove:

Engineer buff level 2
Mines. 

Game is now more agressively focused.
quote ] 
Yoursillyself wrote:
This is what is needed with the ESL config.

Add back in all those Operative abilities that you removed. You know, nerfing the already least used class? AKA add back in com hacking and marking.

Remove level 2 buff from engineers.

Remove mines from engineers. These are a terrible addition, as you can effectively cover a route into the base without even being there. Even if they get spotted, destroying said mine effectively means your position is given away to the enemy without any of the scouting and other fun skilled stuff.

Remove the retarded full hold rules. A game should only be a draw on plant objectives, or if by some freak chance you managed to both get the exact same progress. 

Grenade shooting is fine. L2P, especially since you can also shoot enemy nades.

reallow:
Homing Beacon
Comms Hack
EMP Grenades 

Remove:

Engineer buff level 2
Mines. 

Game is now more agressively focused.


EMP Grenades more agressively focused?
quote ] 
gfn wrote:
EMP Grenades more agressively focused?


Weeeelll, thinking about that, the only reasons they are agressive are due to removing mines, and if a config removes mines.... Yea.... removing EMP is probably for the better.
quote ] 

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